Joe and Katherine Lehman interview

              AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN CAIRO AUC HISTORY ON TAPE MR. AND MRS. JOE LEHMAN
Interviewed by Mr. Manucher Moadeb-Zadeh, December 25, 1969
Manucher: I’m reminiscing with Mr. and Mrs. Joe lehman who were at AUC for a number of years, of course in later years, 1959-61. Mr. lehman was the director of press and if I recall correctly he was the one who was responsible to bring out the first AUC catalog after a number of years in a very nice form. He was involved, of course, with the Campus Caravan, the Chronic Ie, and with so may other things pertaining to the I iterature which came out of AUC Press. Mrs. Lehman was, as well, involved in so may social activities at AUC. And itfs my pleasure at this time, and the date, of course, is December 28. It’s a Sunday. The time is 9:30 and this reminiscing is taking place at their home in Indianapolis, Indiana. Mr. Lehman:
Lehman: Well, Mr. Manucher, in thinking of history and historical things at
AUC, I suppose that the history of any University really is divided into the number of presidents its had. The President of a school of this size gives flavor to the whole institution. Of course, we were asked to come to AUC by DR. Raymond F. McLain, who been President at TRansyI vania, where we were, and his whole background was that of a liberal arts schools, a school of general education. I’d been indoctrinated with Dr. McLain’s ideas for a long time before coming to AUC. So many rememberance of the school, the things I knew about it, can be colored a great deal by the outlook of Dr. McLain himself.
it’s my impression that in the earlier days AUC was a rather difuse school, that had been pulled together into a coherent university, and we were trying to set a pattern that would be readily recognizable.
In our first year there Dr. McLain had asked me to come over and head the journalism sequence and also do whatever news bureau work we could do there.
And as the chairman of the publications committee of that year, we sort of guidedthe way toward establishment of the AUC press. It was established during the first year, and then I became director of it for the second year I was there.
The journalism sequence was a very important one for AUC because many of the students that had graduated from this sequence became important people in the journalistic field there Egypt. This sequence naturally tied in with the work of the student newspaper, the Camous Caravan, and this year--this first year, we published issues of the Campus Caravan every two weeks and culminated with a large issue in the spring called the commencement issue of the Campus Caravai?, which was like an annual in the United States, giving a summary of the whole yearTs work.
The students of that era—I wouldn’t be able to recall all their names, but I remember from the journalism part, people like Fadwa El-Guindi, who helped, who served as editor of the Caravan, Joseph Amin and Ali Mahmud AM were all very ardent workers for the publications department.
Now all during this first year, we were, of course, also gathering together material for publication in the United States in the Chron i cIe, and we did several several small pamphlets and promotional pieces for the school.
For the second year we brought in Mr. Charles Lewis to do most of the Journalism teaching, while I devoted most of my time to the press itself. And in that year we actually started publication of books,some of which I thought were rather outstanding things for such a young organization to do. We had great hopes for the press, for its development, in those days. Of course, the press then was not printing its own books, merely doing the layout and design and editing of them.
We mentioned earlier the gathering together of the University into a truly liberal arts school, and in doing this we brought together the offerings in one catalog which was put under the imprint of the press. Probably the statement made in this catalog, which I suppose it would be dated I960; I would think that this would give really the philosophy of the University at that time, the philosophy0f a liberal arts college and the cutting down of the more technical courses that might be associated with technical schools.
There were some of the things that the press printed that we felt at the time would be given a world-wide distribution. This first year was spent actually on publishing books, expecting to get the distribution of the books later on. We did not have the time that year to work out our distribution system as we had hoped, and I don't know that it ever did develop.
Now as the time went on, Dr. McLain wanted to publicize the work of AUC in the United States. So we sent a good number of stories back to the towns of the various American professors, knowing that they would be published, and we also did some work on a motion picture which he was going to use in promotional programming the following year. Unfortunately, an illness cut his plans in half, more or less, and he never did follow through with showing of the motion picture.
Manucher: Mr. Lehman, you just mentioned about the film, the motion picture,
that you produced in collaboration with Ur. Carl lei den. Would you—I don't believe anyone else in this history has mentioned anything about the film. Would you elaborate on that please. What was the film? What was the motive? How long did they go in implementing what we wanted to do? Would you kindly?
Lehman: Well the film was a pictorial. It was meant first of a I I for
American consumption, not for the Egyptians. It was meant to portray to the
American people what was being done in Egypt. Consequently, it had some scenes around Cairo showing the setting of the University; and then it had scenes within the University showing both academic programs and social programs, that were held. The idea was to be able to show it to various American audiences, showing how the University was attempting to bring American thought to the Middle EAst, American educational philosophy into the Middle East, but adapt it to Middle Eastern circumstances. It was felt that with this kind of a presentation that funds would be forthcoming from various private individuals and foundations in this country.f\t that time the large contributions from the federal government were not &eing received. I think there had been one grant made from the federal
government at all but there was going to be quite a -- Dr. McLain had planned
quite a large fund-raising program.
The press published in its first year 5 volumes, 5 rather major volumes, in addition to various surveys by the Social Research Center, and other gooups.
Its budget was really gained by gathering together publications budgets of various other units. Consequently we were doing quite a lot of publication for the various units, small phamplets and things of this nature.
In the second year we oprated the press with myself, Mr. Ferus Bastarus, and Miss Nermine Kamel as secratary. Bastarus was part-time aditor, handled the Arabic side of things,while I attempted to do most of the English. Miss Kamel did some translation for us, thought it was primarly a secretarial job.
The University being a cosmopolitan sort of institution, perhaps my position was indeed unique in that by working in the news bureau and the publications,
I became acquainted and actually worked with a great many people from various departments and various phases. The Campus £ara_van_, of course, tried to gather together news articles from all of the various divisions, and we had very good relations with everybody in the University.
The Egyptian staff and the American staff—well, there was very little difference in my mind between the two. The Egyptian staff primarily had its degrees from either American or European institutions. There was no real distinction between them in the manner of teaching, because everyone taught in English, and the manner of teaching was the same. The difference was, of course, the Americans didn’t stay so long. There was a great turnover there. We had quite a group of Americans living out in Maadi, some of them with us, some not. So it was a temptation, I suppose, for Americans to form a group of their own, and yet this was not the exact case, because they had many social contacts at the University and in the homes of various Egyptian women, and we had really a very fine two years there.I remember, in particular, I think some of the people, such as Dean Namani and some of the others, that helped a great deal to foster this friendliness. Of course, Mr. Manucher was always in the middle of everything, serving as sort of a catalyst for all sorts of intee-relations.
The student body at that time I suppose there were more than two or three American students there. The rest of them were primarily Middle Easterners, and
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1 we found them extremely agreeable students good looking, bright, and very eager to learn and go out and to accomplish something.
Manucher: In your sojourn in Cairo, of course, in every one's life there are
certain important events that influence him or her. Now do you recall any important academic or non-academic event which influenced your academic life at AUC?
Lehman: Well, I don't know just how to take that question. Of course, the
important thing that happened in the academic community at AUC in this time was the reorganization of the entire program, streamlining it and running the divisions clear through graduate school, in other words an English sequence was not necessarily The end of your career but you could immediately go on to a masters. And I think this was entirely along the lines of extension, trying to make a complete sequence clear through the graduate degree in several fields, not attempting to imitate the Egyptian universities, which were far better equipped to handle the technical subjects than we were, but to deal with the humanities and embue the whole school' with American educational aims and ideas but trying to stick primarily to the humanities and social sciences.
Manucher: You touched the press and the publications and the books that were
Published at that time, but I think you did not elaborate on the books you Published, were first published in the name of the University, what happened to those books? How far and wide was it marketed? Do you think it was worthwhile actually publishing those books? Did you get Your money's worth, let's say?
°id it sort of pay the author's efforts in this area? Would you kindly give us V°ur inside story on these questions I've raised.Lehman: Well, the books we published I think were well worth publishing,
yes. • mentioned that we never had a chance to work out the distribution system a5 I thought it should be worked out. Bustani in Cairo did some distribution for us. The—I can't remember the name of the firm in England—there was a firm in England that was our agent there. We were in correspondence at the time I left wjth a firm in South AMerica and were trying to get one of the larger university presses in the United States to be our agents here. I don't think any of that ever came through, and I do think it was a waste of time to publish books and leave them sit in the basement. I don't know how many books ever were sold outside of Egypt. I think that the University has a very, perhaps not a money­making proposition, but they could at least break even on the press and at the same time make a world-wide reputation if they published the right books and worked out their distribution system.
Manucher: In any particular time, one way of reflection in educational systems
is through anecdotes and jokes, which sometimes could be certainly national, but they would reflect in the educational side of life, do you remember any anecdotes that reflected on our University's academic life, please?
Lehman: I don't recall any stories of this nature. I do feel that AUC at the
time I was there was respected as a top-notch educational institution because, while it wasn't part of the Egyptian system, our graduates found very good position in the government and elsewhere.
Manucher: And now I'm turning, that is my reminiscing with Mrs. Lehman, who has
ever been so interested about AUC and Egypt, and who, Menshah allah" we hope will yet be able to join us again, in some sort way, capacity or otherwise. I'm sure there are—Mrs. Lehman's impressions of AUC will be quite helpful in the area of the work we are now undertaking. Mrs. Lehman:
Mrs. Lehman: You indicated Mr. Manucher you would Iike a few words on our
memories and impressions of the American University in Cairo. You ask the impossible.Our hearts and minds were filled to overflowing during those two brief years of 1959 to 1961. So that the words which might adequately encompass a feeling of close relationship to AUC and to Egypt would fill volumes. Nor could we properly relate the sense of belonging to that far away time and place, so' that all of our thoughts from then onward would be shaded with nostalgia, intermingled with concern, and colored by hues as warm and bright as Egypt's own sun.
It was a happy day when Dr. Raymond McLain invited us to come to American University, and the experiences there are among the most treasured ones of our lives. The friendships and associations of those days have not only endured but have been strengthened and magnified with the passing years. One feels that these associations were and are based not only on an affinity of individuals and personalities but on conviction, consecretion, and devotion to cause and purpose.
For within those beautiful halls which comprise the typical aspect of AUC and which are set in the heart of teaming, cosmopolitan, multi-racial, complex Cairo, a group of people representing many nationalities, faiths, and view-points were and are drawn close by a common bond of dedication which must, "en sha allah", like a pebble in a pool send forth everwidening ripples of influence and good will. Yes it was a happy day.
Manucher: Well, thank you very much for your very generous and kind thoughts about AUC. Now I want to ask you some—probably a question or two. I recall that it was at your time that for the first time in the history of AUC a Dean of Students office was founded. Now as I recall correctly, you had some sort of relationship with that office. Since you are one of the first to be affiliated with that office, would you be able to tell us something about your experience with that office at that time, please?Mrs. Lehman: My experiences were with Mrs. McLain, whom I had long known and admired, and I really performed only a very insignificant part in this undertaking, DUt a lounge was instituted at that time, and Mrs. McLain asked me if I would Undertake to in the decoration and in the forming of activities that might take ;n this lounge, and I did this for some months.
Manucher: let me ask one more question, and that is, what is the most important
impression you have of AUC at that period?
Mrs. Lehman: Your asking me the impossible again, Mr. Manucher. The one
most important one—like I say, they?re all intermingled. Nearly all the memories are happy ones of people interested in what they were doing, alive to the many conflicting personalities that all went together to make up a composite. I think that all of the people there were, as I said before dedicated to the idea that this was an institution which was going into the heart of an entirely different culture, an American viewpoint, but not just an American viewpoint, hopefully a cosmopolitan viewpoint. And I think the feeling of the of the staff and the students, the whole good fellowship that existed there was one of the most remarkable things that I’ve ever experienced in any institution that I’ve ever been associated with . This is the kind of thing that we hoped for and looked for. At AUC it was beautifully realized.
Manucher: El I I, thank you very, very much, and I think we will terminate
our reminiscing by the last words of Mrs. Lehman. Thank you.